7 Reasons for Staying in the Mainline
1. I don't want to be guilty of breaking the body of Christ
2. It is unbiblical to go to court.
3. It is a poor witness to a world in conflict for the church to be in conflict.
4. Our connectionalism is important.
5. We need to remain and witness to the mainline church.
6. Friendships will be permanently damaged.
7. The institution protects us from individualism.
I will cover the answers to this list by posting my third list:
7 Reasons for Leaving the Mainline
1. The Body of Christ is not the institution.
2. When injustice is in place we have a judicial system modeled on biblical institutions.
3. It is a worse witness to the world to act as if apostasy doesn’t matter.
4. Our connectionalism is a farce: There are other wasy to be connectinal.
5. We need to witness to the world with all our energy.
6. Friendships will be damaged as we continue to fight for control of our listing ship.
7. The institution crushes the Spirit.
Can we seperate without bludgeoning one another? Only God knows.
10 Lagniappe (comments):
Dear Bill,
I thank God for your genuine witness. May He bless you and yours in the turbulent days ahead.
As one who has tried to affect change from within and who has been ostracized as a result, I believe that God is calling us to new pastures.
In response to your cliff analogy, I pray that at the bottom of your cliff you find a clear, refreshing pool of clean water. From this pool, which reflects the sky above, perhaps you'll find streams of fresh water that bring life to the countryside as far as the eye can see. And, maybe, you'll find some true friends there being reinvigorated by the fresh water.
A real pilgrim is eager to make progress...
- A grateful friend
Bill,
What would >your< list for staying look like?
Jodie
If we would insure that Jesus is clearly proclaimed in our context.
If we were Reformed and always reforming: to the Word of God.
Institutional malaise was destroyed.
We discovered fluidity to adapt and adjust to the rapidly changing culture of this age.
Freedom of local expression.
Freedom from oppressive institutional demands.
With essential tenets in place we developed real relationships
Bill,
Have you no current reason for staying at all? Is there not one thing about the present organization that is a reason for staying? Not even something like "I made a commitment", or "I have a mortgage to pay", or "a bigger church offers more opportunities". Anything at all, no matter how lame?
Jodie
What I hear you saying is
If the PCUSA was the denomination I (operative word) wanted it to be then I could stay.
Thanks for the oportunity to clarify. First of all having left the church and came back I had a chance to choose - I actually read the documents, found them to be in order and then signed the covenant.
Only to discover later the denomination did not mean what it said - So to clarify - if the denomination would have been what it said it was I would gladly stay.
Jody let's improve the question, "Why am I still here?" First of all I operate ethically in covenants both written and implied.
When I was ordained I made three covenants - literal with documentation. One to the denomination in the form of my oath. One to my presbytery when I signed our "Book of Obligations" and one to my congregation which both I and they have a copy of.
Over the past 6 years it has become clear that the denominationis unable to keep its covenant - it is broken.
My Presbytery and I have a covenant that this posting is about. For me to be faithful to that covenant is to call us to consider the option of leaving.
The Covenant with my congregation is strong. For the sake of these two covenants I remain, and for the sake of these two covenants I will seek to start a new thing.
Howdy Bill,
Glad you guys made it back home safely. I'd add one more commonly held reason to stay, or maybe I should say, "not leave". It's a contextual matter, and it clearly doesn't apply to every situation, but I experienced it at the church I served as an elder. Leaving would confuse a lot of my folks and tear the local church apart. Some would leave and start a new thing, but would probably carry scars. Some would stay, grieve, and try to carry on. Some would be so wounded thorugh the fight that they'd probably leave the church and never return. The cost of leaving can be very high.
God is full of grace.
Jesse
Hello Bayou,
Just an observation with a question:
As a person in the pew of a church that really is trying to be faithful to the original reformed structure of our PCUSA body part of Christ, it seems to me that the institution catholic is not broken. Rather a minority representative that does not represent the majority has taken the reins and is leading us in the wrong direction.
And as a person in the pew who probably has more information on the leadership antics of our PCUSA that might make me 'dangerous', I would ask: Isn't staying and trying to oust those ill advised few and redirect our ship, as it were, back onto its proper course a more direct and productive action to head on back to Jesus?
I guess I'm sayin' "Mutiny for Jesus!". Might look good on a t-shirt. ;)
Jesse,
Glad I made it home too thanks for everything. Yes context is important and this is why the NWAC has said the piece about leaving or staying faithfully. The question becomes does it matter - because if it does then we must count the cost - and decide as the spirit leads us. Thanks for mucking up the discussion!
PG - I'm all for you doing that. I've been at it constantly for 6 years, others have been at it for much longer, I long for a day when I can focus on the better things.
Do not let the good be the enemy of the best.
I just try and imagine the apostle Paul sitting in the room while we debate these things - I think he would be appalled (no pun intended).
Jesse,
Just a thought in passing. Absolutely not finger pointing here. This was a personal moment in the mirror for me:
If hundreds of clergy followed their convictions and left their congregations would it create a shift in opinion? If congregations realized the very importance of this issue would we be so divided?
I mean the folks in Valley Forge stayed with Washington and suffered that winter because (in part) they knew he was risking everything to be there with them.
We clergy often say we think the denomination is in heresy or apostasy or just error but we don't show any conviction by risking everything to take a stand.
The folks in the pew see this lack of risk and figure, "it must not be that important."
I would say that if a clergy believed as I did, and their congregations refused to listen to the Word of God then the Pastor should move on. That is conviction, and conviction changes things.
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